[00:00:00] Arlen: Welcome to the Agency [00:00:05] Health Podcast, where we dig deeper into key agency topics, the what, [00:00:10] why, and how. Mining actionable insights to help build a better firm. [00:00:15] And what is a healthy agency? A healthy agency is one that creates great value [00:00:20] for its clients, people, and owners in a sustainable way. [00:00:25] This episode is the beginning of a new series.

I've been looking forward to this for months [00:00:30] now, and I'm happy to be joined today. By my business partner and agency partners, Piotr [00:00:35] Delawski, what are we talking about today?

[00:00:37] Piotr: Uh, new business, right? Yeah. New business, yeah. [00:00:40] What is new business?

[00:00:41] Arlen: I mean, really it's simply creating new clients. That's [00:00:45] what new business is all about.

It's about those new relationships, new logos, new [00:00:50] accounts. In terms of relevance, things that relate to this topic maybe aren't [00:00:55] included, but we have, of course, marketing, agency marketing, inbound outbound [00:01:00] sales, of course, ties into this business development. Rev [00:01:05] gen, demand, gen lead, gen, GTM, like really there's a whole bucket of terms [00:01:10] that people use to relate to part or all of this topic of new business

[00:01:14] Piotr: is [00:01:15] new business.

Only new clients? Or is it also getting new projects from the [00:01:20] same

[00:01:20] Arlen: client? Great question. When I think about new business and when we talk about the series here, we're [00:01:25] really focused on new clients. So if we're referring to new [00:01:30] business from existing accounts, unless maybe it's like a whole new division, a whole new part of a major [00:01:35] enterprise.

Then I would think about that more as account management and account growth and [00:01:40] really a different parallel topic to new business.

[00:01:43] Piotr: Why are we even talking about new [00:01:45] business

[00:01:45] Arlen: or is there that people should know? Typically, this isn't a topic that we've [00:01:50] delved into too far at agency partners, but we've both been in the [00:01:55] agency space for well over a decade, and I would summarize the things agencies struggle with as three [00:02:00] main things.

There, of course could be like a giant list, but the three things I would [00:02:05] say. Are the most common are leadership, profitability, and new [00:02:10] business. Not necessarily in that order, but those three problems seem to crop up a lot, and I know [00:02:15] you and I are both passionate about helping agencies get healthier. So if they're [00:02:20] wanting to create great value for owners, for their team, for clients.

Sustainably [00:02:25] that requires nailing new business, you know, among other things. But it's a critical [00:02:30] part of that, and I would say it might be what agencies struggle with [00:02:35] most.

[00:02:35] Piotr: Yeah. We want to get agencies healthier, and I think that creating [00:02:40] value for the owners, for the teams, for the clients, make them sustainable [00:02:45] is creating new business.

It is the way to go.

[00:02:47] Arlen: Yeah, and, and we were talking about this [00:02:50] recently that like is new business something that you can [00:02:55] focus on when it's really important and maybe not at other times? I think ultimately that's a lot of why agencies [00:03:00] struggle with new business is because of that intermittent focus.

Even if you're [00:03:05] struggling with some other big problems, if you neglect new [00:03:10] business, it's going to come back and bite you. That pain is gonna be delayed [00:03:15] often. You may not feel it for three months, six months, 12 months, but if we [00:03:20] neglect to focus on new business, it will come back and bite us.

[00:03:24] Piotr: Yeah, [00:03:25] I'm slightly concerned that if we only speak about new business, then we forget about [00:03:30] old business.

Say providing new clients, new business [00:03:35] to an agency that is already struggling with operations, with delivery, is it going to [00:03:40] do any good to them? Is it a good idea? Shouldn't we first try to put things in [00:03:45] place, uh, you know, theme. The blood and then try [00:03:50] to really help out and provide the business. What's your take on this?

[00:03:54] Arlen: You've, [00:03:55] uh, hit on something here that when an agency maybe isn't delivering [00:04:00] well for their clients to begin with, um, I liked what you mentioned in [00:04:05] a previous conversation, do they even deserve new clients? Nice. If they're not providing the value [00:04:10] that they promise to the market. The interesting thing I would say is that new [00:04:15] business becomes this lever.

That can help you to fix everything [00:04:20] else. I'm not saying it's the end all be all, and certainly there are times to pause new [00:04:25] business and to put all your strategic focus into fixing other problems. But [00:04:30] I'd say that doesn't happen very often that we can really neglect new business. So what I was getting [00:04:35] at there is if we get to a place where we are [00:04:40] effective at attracting the right kinds of clients regularly in a way that we have some control over.[00:04:45]

Then we have a better chance of actually serving clients well, [00:04:50] for a few reasons. One, we can be pickier about the clients we choose, which [00:04:55] means we can be more profitable. We have more control over our pricing, and that [00:05:00] profitability allows us to take better care of our clients. Actually charging more is often a [00:05:05] big part of providing a better service, and it also means if we have more control over the [00:05:10] clients we're taking in, then we can be pickier.

[00:05:15] Do work that is more similar, so we're able to pattern match. We're able to work on similar [00:05:20] problems over and over, so we get better at solving those problems. We get better at serving those clients. [00:05:25] Whereas if new business isn't great, we have to take what comes along. It might be too much [00:05:30] variety. We're not serving those clients that well.

We're not delivering the value.

[00:05:33] Piotr: Yeah, I was playing a bit of [00:05:35] a devil's advocate there. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Because I can de definitely see, and I saw that in my [00:05:40] past experiences that usually the worst projects were from the worst clients when there was [00:05:45] no fit between the client needs or even the client culture [00:05:50] and what we as an agency, were able.

To provide or the way of our [00:05:55] working, and I'm totally sure that there would be other agencies [00:06:00] that would serve the same client in a way that they deserve or they [00:06:05] expect, but there's not always that perfect match. Yes, it's a bit like [00:06:10] with marriage or with partnership. You need to find the right match the way we could help.[00:06:15]

Out many agencies is to find this right match between the [00:06:20] client and the project and an agency. Yeah,

[00:06:22] Arlen: absolutely. New business. It [00:06:25] becomes the start of many other good things when done well, and it also is in some ways [00:06:30] the root of many other problems. If new business is not going well, if we don't have. [00:06:35] A system set up there that is working for us, then a lot of other [00:06:40] problems can arise in other areas of the business.

Tell me about some of your [00:06:45] experiences in new business, working in senior engineering roles. Are there any [00:06:50] anecdotes or any experiences that stand out to you as characteristic of new business in [00:06:55] digital agencies?

[00:06:55] Piotr: Off top of my head. I think that always working on [00:07:00] projects with different needs, with things that we have not really worked before on [00:07:05] was always the struggle.

First of all, we were tasked with estimating [00:07:10] things we, we don't really know how to estimate because they were [00:07:15] just one, one-off or first time seen kind of jobs. At this stage, we [00:07:20] already struggled to provide the right numbers and then we were. [00:07:25] Task to work against those numbers, and then you could go either over [00:07:30] or under the number.

And in both cases you would feel that something is off that [00:07:35] is not right. And the further you went. Of the estimated number, the [00:07:40] more pressure and tension you would feel, especially at the leadership positions. That's [00:07:45] the thing, like getting the same kind of work, the same kind of tasks over and [00:07:50] over again, may seem a bit, I dunno, boring or tedious, but [00:07:55] on the other hand, this builds musty, this builds.

Confidence in [00:08:00] your work and your estimates and allows you to build on top of that. [00:08:05] You could use the margins from the work as you know, in order to explore [00:08:10] new areas, new kind of task, new kind of work, new kind of offerings, [00:08:15] and do it without the stress of this is whole new and now we have to build everything [00:08:20] from scratch.

And we haven't done it so far in such a way, or to that extent. This [00:08:25] all ties back to this agency client or agency project match.

[00:08:29] Arlen: Yeah, [00:08:30] I resonate with what you're saying though, and digging into that a little bit. When you're struggling with [00:08:35] estimation because, hey, this is something we've never done before.

We've done a lot of things right, but we've never [00:08:40] done, we've never solved this exact problem. In this context, it can be [00:08:45] difficult to estimate and it might feel like, wow, we need a better system for estimation, right? Like we're [00:08:50] bad at estimation and sure, maybe the system for estimation in any agency [00:08:55] can improve, but maybe the actual problem is.

We're not attracting enough of [00:09:00] the right kinds of problems to solve, like enough of the right kinds of clients. And if we solve [00:09:05] that, then actually our estimation system works fine. We have the right people, we have the right skills. [00:09:10] We just need to have more of similar kinds of projects. And then.

[00:09:15] Everything else works better. So I think that's a great example of how getting the top of the funnel to work [00:09:20] well and being better at demand gen can really help solve the [00:09:25] problems further, even in the new business process. And we haven't even talked about getting into delivery. [00:09:30] And thanks further than that, in my experience with new business, when it's good in [00:09:35] an agency, when things are going well, that's usually because of the efforts [00:09:40] of a few people.

There's often not a system, there's not a plan [00:09:45] that you could hire somebody else to run that, and it would work as well. Like it's dependent on the personality. [00:09:50] The connections, the hidden knowledge, if you will, of those people. [00:09:55] And so if they're sick, if they move on, if something changes, [00:10:00] then you're starting at square one.

So even when agency new business works well, that [00:10:05] dependency on a few people is a big risk. We often would talk about the bus factor [00:10:10] and what if something happens to Joe over here? Well, the whole thing's gonna [00:10:15] fall down. And so until the agency is large enough, those few people often [00:10:20] have inconsistent focus on new business because of competing priorities.

So maybe they're good at it, [00:10:25] but once we get a lot of work, then those same people in leadership [00:10:30] have to make sure that we execute the work well and that the clients are happy now. Their eyes off the [00:10:35] ball of new business. And so as those projects start to wind down, we don't have a pipeline [00:10:40] of great opportunities.

That's a lot of my experience with new business is people [00:10:45] dependence leading to the feast and famine cycle that so many agencies are [00:10:50] familiar with.

[00:10:50] Piotr: That's even more visible when there's a single technical person [00:10:55] at the very top level. That is either concerned [00:11:00] with getting new business or with executing what's already in the pipeline It, it may [00:11:05] be a technical founder.

It may be the CTO or like a very senior engineer on the [00:11:10] team that is expected to work on estimations, but also lead projects [00:11:15] and usually lead those projects that are already in bad shape and that. [00:11:20] Is not helping and driving new business. New business. It's not the first class citizen at this [00:11:25] stage in the company because there are fires to be put down at the same time, over [00:11:30] dependence on single person or you know, a very short list of people that are [00:11:35] capable of doing some things like those estimations or finding the.[00:11:40]

Project or client project, they have other important hats that

[00:11:44] Arlen: they're wearing too. [00:11:45] Yeah. Yes. And I think that gets into why agency new business is hard. What are some [00:11:50] of your observations about what makes new business in the agency environment [00:11:55] challenging? What are some of the things that you've, you've seen

[00:11:57] Piotr: there may be no technical person, [00:12:00] the, the right place to find or to select the right new business or you know, to do [00:12:05] the estimations.

There may be a marketer or a salesperson that [00:12:10] is trying to find any new business, any new potential project because. The [00:12:15] agency just needs new work, you know, to survive, and that's [00:12:20] where you get this attachment between what we can do and what is expected of [00:12:25] us from the client, from the project. I, I guess that's one of the hard pieces there, that there might be [00:12:30] not even the person that is able to, or there's no time for that person to do those [00:12:35] things.

[00:12:35] Arlen: Yeah, I resonate with that. Many agencies may not even have the right person. [00:12:40] And that's probably two skill sets you described, right? You need the skillset of [00:12:45] marketing and sales and engaging with the market, and you also need the skillset of. The [00:12:50] services that you provide and being able to understand the strategy, whether that's design, [00:12:55] technology, whatever it is, and how, how you determine the fit with the right [00:13:00] clients, how you are gonna deliver the right strategy and results for them.

And you may not even [00:13:05] have those people. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:13:06] Piotr: Or those people may have just moved or you just introduce a new person that's [00:13:10] never been to see how things are actually. Working and if we are able to deliver that [00:13:15] kind of work.

[00:13:15] Arlen: Yeah. So people with the right skills is part of that equation, and I [00:13:20] think that points to, even when you have the founders doing this work, it's rarely a preexisting strength [00:13:25] for agency founders.

People usually start agencies because they love the work itself [00:13:30] and whatever they're providing. So sales and marketing is not [00:13:35] something new. Business is not something most founders are drawn to, and I think [00:13:40] regardless of who's doing it within the business, it requires really high quality [00:13:45] thinking. From some of the most in demand people in the firm.

So [00:13:50] that is already scarce. And then when you combine this scarce resource from [00:13:55] people who probably don't love this work to begin with, with [00:14:00] ongoing competing demands, it becomes even harder to give consistent [00:14:05] effort to new business and new business also takes a lot of [00:14:10] experimentation and risk taking and trial and error.

It requires ongoing reinvention, [00:14:15] right? Because what worked two years ago may not be working now, just like an [00:14:20] agency has to keep reinventing its services and the kind of problems it solves and how it solves [00:14:25] them, and there really isn't a one size fits all playbook, right? Like there isn't. This is the [00:14:30] way you do agency new business, and if you just follow this checklist, it's gonna work for you.

It's [00:14:35] something you have to figure out. Yes, you can learn from other people, their patterns that tend to [00:14:40] work, but the exact playbook that will work in your agency is largely a [00:14:45] product of the people in it and their strengths and how they can approach new business. So [00:14:50] it's tough.

[00:14:51] Piotr: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So.

We know it's hard, but [00:14:55] what can we do about it? Is there a way that we could help them?

[00:14:58] Arlen: I think there definitely [00:15:00] is. If you look at the fact that there are agencies that not only don't have the [00:15:05] feast or famine, but they're able to grow steadily, not. Through one [00:15:10] season of a market bubble, but over the longer term, they're able to keep growing.

They're able [00:15:15] to have a good deal of control over their destiny. Then I think we [00:15:20] can conclude from that, that there are ways to break out of that feast or famine. [00:15:25] There are ways to improve on it and. Like any journey, it [00:15:30] starts really with understanding the destination. What do we want? What is new business [00:15:35] success?

What does it look like? I would say what we want is a somewhat [00:15:40] predictable, at least somewhat, right, more the better, predictable approach to creating new [00:15:45] client relationships that we have a fair degree of control over. It's not that [00:15:50] complicated what we want. It might be hard, but it's a pretty simple idea, so predictable [00:15:55] approach.

To creating new client relationships that we have a fair degree of control [00:16:00] over. And so over time through that experimentation and building our [00:16:05] playbook, we should be able to ultimately see when I put in this effort [00:16:10] and do these things. Then this is the outcome I can expect. If we [00:16:15] spend this amount of money, have this team in place doing these things, then this is [00:16:20] the volume of qualified new business that we can generate.

Will it be [00:16:25] exactly predictable? No, but. We want to be able to equate inputs and [00:16:30] outputs, and I think risk is another big part of the [00:16:35] destination we want to arrive at with new business. We don't want to be overly dependent on external [00:16:40] parties action or inaction. Meaning things like referrals or things like [00:16:45] market dynamics.

We don't wanna be overly specific

[00:16:47] Piotr: people. Yeah, yeah. Or specific people, right. [00:16:50] That uh, yes. The seal ties back to the previous topic. We don't want to. Rely on one [00:16:55] person or even a small group of people when it comes to new business.

[00:16:58] Arlen: Yeah, we might need [00:17:00] those people and their knowledge, but what if one of them leaves?

What if one of them is sick? We need a system like [00:17:05] you're saying, that transcends those exact people. And I think the last big risk that I see [00:17:10] is maybe depending too much on a single channel or tactic, so we want a solution that is more [00:17:15] robust. We want our approach to new business to be more resilient, not [00:17:20] a big single point of failure on the people side or on the channel or tactic side.

So that's what we want. [00:17:25] And once we have that destination in mind, then we can [00:17:30] start to say, okay, how do we build to that? How do we create a new business system that [00:17:35] gives us that kind of outcome?

[00:17:36] Piotr: So where do agencies get it wrong? Where those. [00:17:40] Problems coming from?

[00:17:42] Arlen: What are some of the things that stand out to you?

You know, the ways [00:17:45] agencies get it wrong. Uh,

[00:17:46] Piotr: I think that, again, speaking to the seasonal [00:17:50] nature of agency work, there are times when you have to work and work, uh, too many projects [00:17:55] and not enough resources to serve them all. And that's when new [00:18:00] business and all the are going on the bug burner. And [00:18:05] then you have the time of famine where you are trying to.

Even too much to get new business [00:18:10] because there's nothing else you can do. So there's like this inconsistency in your [00:18:15] efforts. You may be putting too much time in one season and then too little time and too [00:18:20] little effort in another season. There's this inconsistency, but also sometimes it's [00:18:25] just insufficient of this effort.

A founder or a marketer, a sales team, they're not [00:18:30] putting enough to really find a new business. They don't try to discover new ways [00:18:35] of fighting new clients, and that's something that nowadays is really that in the era [00:18:40] of ai, you really need to be ahead to some degree. So that's like [00:18:45] the. Inconsistencies and also this insufficiency of [00:18:50] effort.

This is something that definitely plays a role in why agencies are getting [00:18:55] it from.

[00:18:55] Arlen: Yeah, I think we've seen a lot of shops close over the last year. A [00:19:00] lot of agencies close their doors, and I think most people seem to expect that there will [00:19:05] be a lot more of that in the next one to two years. And that speaks to, like [00:19:10] you described, the market changing rapidly right now.

And so when the market's changing, you [00:19:15] have to put even more effort in. It's a challenge and can be a problem for agencies, [00:19:20] but it also means opportunity. So some agencies are gonna win in that reality. So you talked [00:19:25] about inconsistent efforts, insufficient efforts. Another one would be diffusion of effort, right?

Like [00:19:30] trying to do too many things and none of them very well. I see a lot of this where [00:19:35] some people refer to this as like a peanut butter approach, where you're just spreading your go-to-market efforts, [00:19:40] your marketing around, hoping that something will work. There's this phrase, you know, throw [00:19:45] stuff at the wall and see what sticks.

And although we have to experiment and try new [00:19:50] things, I hate that idea of a haphazard approach here. I think we can be strategic when [00:19:55] we aren't. We have problems. None of those channels work out well when we're spread across too many, [00:20:00] and that goes into, I guess, the poor quality of efforts. So we need enough [00:20:05] attention on what we are trying to do to do it well enough.

To stand out [00:20:10] to find the breakthroughs. So for example, a lot of agencies have tried some form of [00:20:15] outbound and it just hasn't worked for them. So they say outbound doesn't work for [00:20:20] agencies, but in practice, what really is often happening, I would [00:20:25] suggest is that the quality of outbound. Wasn't sufficient to have [00:20:30] success.

So just because we tried it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Maybe we did a bad job, maybe we [00:20:35] had a poor quality of effort. I

[00:20:36] Piotr: would probably compare that to build a muscle. [00:20:40] Uh, finding your business is building muscle. You have to be consistent. [00:20:45] It's not enough to go to the gym once a month or you know, once every few [00:20:50] weeks.

You have to be really consistent and you have to. Put some effort into that. [00:20:55] You have to do all the reps and you have to, to do them right, so poor quality of [00:21:00] your workouts will lead you nowhere. You'll not build this muscle. And then [00:21:05] if you try to do too many different types of workouts, you get [00:21:10] diffused, like the effort is not really focused.

You may be really [00:21:15] working hard, but. Still you. You won't build up muscle that you are really [00:21:20] interested in you. You should just be very mindful and focus on what you are trying to [00:21:25] really do, what you're trying to work out, and then use the right method for that. Use the right, mm-hmm. [00:21:30] Rhythm. And be consistent.

You just have to be really consistent in anything [00:21:35] you do because consistency beats everything else in this case.

[00:21:39] Arlen: Yeah, I [00:21:40] resonate so much with that and I, I think that's a great metaphor for [00:21:45] effective new business. You need a bunch of ingredients together and that can feel a [00:21:50] bit overwhelming, right? It can feel like so many things I have to get right.

I can't get all these things right, [00:21:55] but there are many ways to succeed. You do need some core ingredients, but then. Like [00:22:00] making a good pastry. There are many good pastries you can make. There's not just one, right? [00:22:05] So in agency, new business, there are many ways to succeed. There's not just one way, [00:22:10] but probably any good pastry is gonna have a sweetener.

Any good [00:22:15] pastry is gonna have a rising agent. You know, any good pastry is gonna have some. In the same [00:22:20] way, in new business, we're gonna have, if we succeed, we're gonna have consistency of effort. We're gonna have [00:22:25] enough effort. We're not gonna diffuse that. We're gonna focus on a few things. And do them really [00:22:30] well.

And those things all have to be true, and I'm excited about exploring those [00:22:35] in the episodes we have coming up. We're in a really interesting time in agency new [00:22:40] business. We have global reach. Most agencies have potential at least [00:22:45] to sell to a global market, even if they are focused more regionally.

There's also global [00:22:50] competition. Maybe in the past we were competing only with regional agencies, and [00:22:55] now we find there's agencies in lower cost markets that are eating our lunch. [00:23:00] And we have to differentiate. We have to prove that we are [00:23:05] adding. Value that justifies the expense. That can mean [00:23:10] not just changing how we market, but changing what we market.

What are the [00:23:15] services and the outcomes that we're selling? What are the problems that we're solving? Maybe that [00:23:20] has to evolve as well, but I know I'm personally really energized [00:23:25] working in a growth seat. It's a lot of fun, and change means challenge, but also. [00:23:30] A lot of opportunity.

[00:23:31] Piotr: Yes, uh, I fully agree. And uh, I believe that this [00:23:35] may be the time for many agencies to start looking into being [00:23:40] more specific, more focused into censoring around the markets [00:23:45] against that part vertical.

So find the niche and chase that long tail [00:23:50] of clients of projects. So there are definitely many ways that can [00:23:55] help agencies. Become healthier by finding new business.

[00:23:59] Arlen: And you bring up [00:24:00] something that might be valuable to touch on here. How does new business fit in with [00:24:05] our interests on the Agency Health Podcast?

Like? We've talked a little bit about the fit into agency [00:24:10] health, but as a firm, we focus on this topic of agency health and certain [00:24:15] parts of it. Helping agencies get healthier, it requires. Deliberate [00:24:20] execution. When we're thinking about profitability in an agency, we're thinking about exposing [00:24:25] reality and acting on it, right?

Finding the places where we're leaking [00:24:30] profit and finding the levers that can improve those things. And then [00:24:35] executing them and continuing to expose reality and act on it. You know, is that lever actually [00:24:40] moving? Are we getting the results? So internally, a core part of value [00:24:45] creation is profitable operations, right?

That's how the agency delivers a lot of its [00:24:50] value to its owners and its people. But externally, value creation starts [00:24:55] with go to market. We have to have a value proposition that is [00:25:00] gonna resonate with the market. We have to have a problem. Or a pain that the market we're pursuing [00:25:05] cares about that we have a way to help.

We can help solve it or help solve part of [00:25:10] it. Help them make progress towards solving that problem or addressing that pain. And then not [00:25:15] only do we need that, but we have to bring that to the market effectively. So doing all of that [00:25:20] well, it requires a lot of exposing reality and acting on it, which is that core [00:25:25] discipline of improving agency health.

These two things fit together, effective new business. [00:25:30] Leads to more of the right work and more of the right work leads to greater [00:25:35] value creation and profitability. And then you can reinvest that [00:25:40] profit back into new business. So it creates this upward cycle. I, I really [00:25:45] see. The focus of profitability and the focus on new business, they fit together [00:25:50] like a hand and glove.

They really go together well. It's great to see how these [00:25:55] twin levers can help agencies get stronger and help [00:26:00] improve the quality of life for the people in them and for the clients that they serve. Yeah. So [00:26:05] what's ahead? Yeah. What's in the new business series? So we're gonna have conversations [00:26:10] with marketing leaders working on the front lines in agencies, so people wearing [00:26:15] that marketing hat and trying things, finding things that work well, exposing reality and [00:26:20] acting on it themselves.

We're gonna talk to experienced consultants and experts who [00:26:25] help agencies nail new business. We're also gonna be talking to people outside of the agency [00:26:30] space. Who have interesting perspectives and approaches that could translate and be [00:26:35] really relevant, at least in part for agencies. So we already have three episodes recorded [00:26:40] and more to come, more people that have said yes and are happy to [00:26:45] share with all of us some of their hard won insight and expertise [00:26:50] on agency new business.

So as we wrap up [00:26:55] today, if you as a listener are facing a challenge with new business. In your [00:27:00] agency or you'd like a sounding board for an aspect of your new business strategy, send me a [00:27:05] message on LinkedIn or grab a 15 minute call via my profile or the show notes. [00:27:10] I'd be happy to be a thinking partner with you.

And thank you for joining us for [00:27:15] this episode of the Agency Health Podcast. You'll find key takeaways and links in the [00:27:20] show notes. And if you found this episode valuable, consider subscribing and sharing. [00:27:25] Take care. And be [00:27:30] well.